Would the Koran Have Been Approved by the Government?
I’ve been meaning to post on the new religion law which just passed the Senate in Kazakhstan leaving it up to the president to sign. The Huffington Post has nice breakdown of the law, what it says and where it sits in historical context. And a link to a nice review of the law!
As with so many other things, a huge part if why thus law is offensive us that Kazakhstsn continues to claim to be the home of religious tolerance. One wonders if many religions that send representatives to the World Religion Congress will be legal in Kazakhstsn soon. There can’t be that many Zen Buddhists in Kazakhstan, for example, or Shintoists. How could Kazakhstan invite leaders of those churches to Astana if they declared those same religions illegal?
So the real problem with this bill is that not only will churches be judged by arbitrary criteria like how many people belong to the church ( Jesus and his 13 apostles would be SOL as would Mohammed and his wife and daughters), but that previously approved churches will gave to be reregistered. And that religious literature will gave to be approved by the government. What kind of education prepares a government official to judge all religious documents?
But the real problem here is that none of these provisions seem like they will do much to prevent terrorism or violent crime, the purported aim of this law. Large churches and small alike have sponsored and inspired religious violence and subversion. Nothing in this law seems to address law enforcement or surveillance or crime-prevention. Rather it invents a whole new set of ways that religious organizations can break the law. It’s a bit like trying to go after the Mafia by demanding that all Italian restaurants redo their health inspections. And insofar as there have been indications that religious groups in Kazakhstan have become radicalized because of state repression, I’m unclear how it will help to pass new law that could be perceived as more state repression.
As the HuffPo piece says, two previous attempts to pass a stricter religion law were blocked by the Constitutional Council. So it’s possible the President will not sign this one.
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I can’t say I disagree with this being signed, although it is bit surprising in terms of asking ‘what’s next?’ in a “free” country.
My views on that one can be summed up in about 4min: http://bit.ly/pjK6w3
That being said, I’ve tried to be a bit more understanding since my new family is predominantly ‘muslim’ by reading books such as My Year Inside Radical Islam and koran curious – a guide for infidels and believers. Even after educating myself (albeit very mildly), I still don’t like what I see in this book. I’d like to know more about how Kazakhs can claim to be muslim and still be accepting of all faiths, but if *I* were to open up dialogue with in-laws it wouldn’t go over well because of my biases.
The interesting thing is that the authorities don’t seem to have any problems with Islam. They spend a lot more time creating problems for Baptists, Jehovah’s Witnesses, Hare Krishnas, and various evangelical Protestant denominations i.e. churches that Kazakhstan views as “new”.
citing michael savage as a source on Islam makes about as much sense as using an anti-semetic web site to learn about judaism, or watching this video to learn about christian theology. And using a book like “My Year Inside Radical Islam” is like using the writings of the White Supremacist “Christian Identity” movement to learn about Catholicism. Perhaps the stupidest thing you can possibly do if you really want to learn about a religion is to rely upon sources by people who have a beef against the religion.
If you want to understand what the religion really means to actual practioners in the mainstream, you should look at the sources they use to learn about their own religion. Or better yet, talk to an actual believer about what he or she believes. If your new family is really predominantly muslim, why not just talk to them? Why resort to a book well known to be a depiction of the radical fringe or the ravings of a bigoted broadcaster when you apparently have plenty of better resources in your family?
Yes, Savage does have a beef with it, but the other book does not. It was written by a kid who was born Jewish and got sucked into it somehow and later learned that the mosque he was attending was being funded by wahabbis in Saudi Arabia and some of their fund raising efforts went straight to al quaeda.
I would talk to them, but with my current thoughts on the subject, I know I would just come off as hostile and belligerent. This is why I started reading something as opposed to listening to it on a radio show.
My judgment of who’s real or not comes from being raised in a christian school for 10 years where it was part of the curriculum and being beaten daily with , “It’s OUR way or the highway [to hell], don’t question your beliefs, etc.” I was constantly called a heretic and worldly as a little kid cuz I played mortal kombat and listened to metallica. Fine, I wasn’t a “good” christian.
Now w/ islam: war with non-believers, don’t make friendships with non-muslims, christians and jews are lesser people, take on multiple wives, beat them if you can’t reason with em… and this is in the first 10 suras! none of that strikes me as peaceful and understanding.
KZBlog – pew poll here re muslims in america: http://bit.ly/qDULGS
suggests ~21% support extremism, 2% have a very favorable view of al qaeda, 1% say suicide bombing and other forms of violence are often justified. Small numbers, but consider 1-2% of ~2.5M is more than “a few crazies.” Which leads me to wonder: are most Kazakhs muslim because they affiliate themselves with it since they were born in it? the way Jews are Jewish whether or not they like it if one of their parents (father?) is?
There’s no doubt that islam is America’s new boogeyman and they aren’t exactly trying to convince us otherwise, whether or not we are accepting and open to learn otherwise.
Now w/ islam: war with non-believers, don’t make friendships with non-muslims, christians and jews are lesser people, take on multiple wives, beat them if you can’t reason with em… and this is in the first 10 suras! none of that strikes me as peaceful and understanding.
no, that’s only what a crazy fringe of muslims believe. (there are also christians who believe they should not have non-christian friends and jews who don’t believe in having non-jewish friends). i have many muslim friends and i am an atheist jewish-american. i spent a year in a majority muslim country (Kazakhstan) and i have visited numerous other muslim countries (turkey, tunisia, syria, lebanon, the UAE, oman, mali, uzbekistan, tajikistan, egypt, the west bank (palestine/israel)) and have never had any problems with any of the people there. i have stayed in muslim’s homes and been to their homes for dinner. my own first hand experience over the past 10 years bears no resemblance to what you and people like michael savage say.
yes, there are extremist muslims who are as you describe. but it is a small minority. i have only met one muslim with multiple wives (a saudi tourist who i chatted with when i was in syria) and no one has ever treated me badly for not being a muslim. in fact, i prefer traveling in muslim countries because they tend to treat foreigners better than in non-muslim countries i have visited. (islam has a strong ethic to aid any traveler as it came out of a semi-nomadic culture. that ethic expresses itself differently in different muslim countries. but it is always there in some form, though i think arabs are the nicest to strangers)
KZBlog – pew poll here re muslims in america: http://bit.ly/qDULGS
suggests ~21% support extremism, 2% have a very favorable view of al qaeda, 1% say suicide bombing and other forms of violence are often justified. Small numbers, but consider 1-2% of ~2.5M is more than “a few crazies.” Which leads me to wonder: are most Kazakhs muslim because they affiliate themselves with it since they were born in it? the way Jews are Jewish whether or not they like it if one of their parents (father?) is?
you are misunderstanding or misrepresenting the poll. it does not say that “21% support extremists” it says that 21% of american muslims believe that there is “a great deal of support” for extremists among american muslims. in other words, 21% of american muslims agree with you!
2% have a very favorable view of al qaeda, 1% say suicide bombing and other forms of violence are often justified.
yes, but those are small numbers, and in a survey with a margin of error of +/-5%, which means that the actual support could be almost 0%. how does that support your claim that islam itself is violent. in fact, that seems to indicate that the vast majority of american muslims are not.
I hadn’t looked at those sources. I would agree with upyernoz here. That’s hardly the face of your typical Muslim. Also the idea of an outsider judging a religion always annoys me. Like my telling someone one they can’t be a Jew unless they keep kosher. How can I judge them or decide who is a real Jew? And how can we judge what a real Muslim is?